Welcome Tom Peters 11:48:44 [Tom Peters] Hi, Everyone 11:48:49 [Bill DiMascio] Just barely. I don't have a mike. 11:49:30 [Tom Peters] I hear you, but you're soft 11:50:57 [Bill DiMascio] much better 11:51:51 [Bill DiMascio] fine 11:53:12 Kai OrangeBand.org has joined the session 11:53:54 Paul Schumann has joined the session 11:54:25 [Tom Peters] Hi, Everyone. We'll get started in approx. 6 mins. 11:54:37 [John Doble] sounds good 11:55:09 tomas spath has joined the session 11:55:12 [Taylor Willingham] John, did you get your sound worked out? 11:55:17 [John Doble] Yes 11:55:17 [Taylor Willingham] I stepped away for a sec 11:55:43 [Kai OrangeBand.org] john's softer 11:55:52 [Bill DiMascio] He's lower than you Taylor. But I can hear him fine. 11:56:00 [Paul Schumann] Heard Taylor only 11:56:02 [Kai OrangeBand.org] yep! 11:56:14 [Paul Schumann] Yes 11:56:59 [Tom Peters] Volume is good, but lots of popping 11:57:02 [Kai OrangeBand.org] lots o' static - are you right next to the mic? 11:57:28 [Kai OrangeBand.org] yes 11:59:31 Elizabeth Lynn has joined the session 12:00:52 [John Doble] terrif 12:01:40 [Taylor Willingham] tom, here's your 5 sec warning 12:01:43 Carolyn Caywood has joined the session 12:01:44 [Tom Peters] okay 12:01:50 Sharon has joined the session 12:02:02 [Dan Zalles] Hello. I'm back. 12:03:08 Steven Fearing has joined the session 12:03:22 [Sharon] Am I the only one who can't hear anything? 12:03:52 Tim Bonnemann has joined the session 12:04:01 [Tom Peters] Hi, Sharon. Make sure your speakers are turned on. 12:04:04 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.flickr.com/photos/texasforums/298181810/ 12:04:23 [Tim Bonnemann] Good morning, everyone. 12:04:39 [Sandy Heierbacher] Hi, I'm here. Andy's showing me how things work. 12:04:40 [Tom Peters] Then, in the lower left hand corner of this screen, make sure the horizontal slider to the right of the speaker icon is pushed all the way to the right. 12:05:01 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/frame.htm 12:05:01 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/outline.htm 12:05:01 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0001.htm 12:05:01 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/outline.htm 12:05:01 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/outline.htm 12:05:33 [Sharon] I don't have the drop down to send private messages, all volumes slides, mutes, speakers, at max, and slides aren't changing 12:05:50 [Taylor Willingham] sharon are you on a pc or mac? 12:05:55 [Tom Peters] Sharon, feel free to phone me 816.228.6406 12:06:00 [Carolyn Caywood] I cannot hear either 12:06:07 Anne Isenhower has joined the session 12:06:09 [Sharon] pc - I use OPAL all the time 12:06:17 [Taylor Willingham] ouch 12:06:28 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.flickr.com/photos/texasforums/298181810/ 12:06:37 [Tom Peters] Sharon, try leaving the room and then coming back in. 12:06:45 [Sharon] will do 12:06:50 Sharon has left the session 12:07:00 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/frame.htm 12:07:00 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/outline.htm 12:07:00 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0001.htm 12:07:00 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/outline.htm 12:07:00 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/outline.htm 12:07:23 Sharon has joined the session 12:07:36 Sharon has left the session 12:07:49 [Taylor Willingham] I will keep an eye out for text questions and make sure we address them! 12:07:53 [Steven Fearing] + 12:07:54 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0019.htm'); 12:07:55 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0019.htm'); 12:07:55 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0019.htm 12:08:10 Carolyn Caywood has left the session 12:08:16 Carolyn Caywood has joined the session 12:08:47 [Carolyn Caywood] He is still too soft to hear. I could hear the intro though. 12:09:07 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0003.htm'); 12:09:07 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0003.htm'); 12:09:07 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0003.htm 12:09:40 [Tom Peters] Carolyn, under the "file" dropdown menu in the upper left corner, select the "Launch Windows Master Volume Control" option near the bottom of the list. 12:09:44 silona has joined the session 12:09:51 [Tom Peters] That will open a new window. 12:09:57 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0017.htm'); 12:09:57 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0017.htm'); 12:09:57 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0017.htm 12:09:59 [Tom Peters] Move all the volume controls to the top. 12:10:12 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0020.htm'); 12:10:12 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0020.htm'); 12:10:13 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0020.htm 12:11:14 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0004.htm'); 12:11:14 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0004.htm 12:12:09 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0006.htm'); 12:12:09 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0006.htm'); 12:12:09 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0006.htm 12:13:19 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0011.htm'); 12:13:20 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0011.htm'); 12:13:20 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0011.htm 12:13:39 [Carolyn Caywood] They are at the top. :-( 12:14:53 [Paul Schumann] The Stature of Responsibility 12:15:23 [Paul Schumann] To balance the stature of liberty 12:15:40 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0005.htm'); 12:15:40 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0005.htm'); 12:15:40 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0005.htm 12:16:54 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0007.htm'); 12:16:54 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0007.htm'); 12:16:54 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0007.htm 12:18:02 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0008.htm'); 12:18:02 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0008.htm'); 12:18:02 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0008.htm 12:20:01 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0009.htm'); 12:20:01 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0009.htm'); 12:20:01 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0009.htm 12:20:34 [Tom Peters] Has online access to governmental agencies, politicians, and federal, state, and local employees had much impact on the sense of "connectedness" in the general population to their government? 12:21:08 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0010.htm'); 12:21:08 [Taylor Willingham] javascript:GoToSld('slide0010.htm'); 12:21:08 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.opal-online.org/virtualroundtable_files/slide0010.htm 12:22:30 [Carolyn Caywood] Access to getting a form letter? 12:22:40 sharon has joined the session 12:24:53 [silona] with the league we found the importance of conversations to be a huge motivating factor for the tech experts to participate - hence getting legislators and staff on the site as crucial to our research 12:26:14 [silona] virtual gated communities - love that imagery 12:26:29 [Kai OrangeBand.org] We're more "connected" - but more superficially. I have 5,359 MySpace "friends" but I don't really know them very well. 12:26:46 [betty knighton] We have certainly heard people talking here in West Virginia about increased access to information--about candidates and their positions. We have also heard people talk about their willingness to read the opiniions of other citizens around the country in online blogs. 12:27:27 [Carolyn Caywood] Yeah. I'm just finishing The Fourth Turning which sees this as a natural cyclic stage cultrures go through. 12:27:41 [silona] live journal faciliates my burning man community - we organize art projects and meetups in RL - but it is conversation based and facilitate conversations 12:28:50 [betty knighton] For the most part, participants do not express their inability to deal with the complexity of an issue. They do express their inability to sort through the combination of information and MISinformation they hear from parties and candidates. 12:28:50 Sharon Ruda has joined the session 12:29:05 [Kai OrangeBand.org] I'd say people don't feel informed enough to make decisions 12:29:17 [Kai OrangeBand.org] people even defer to "those who know" 12:29:47 [silona] from my LJ community most don't feel informed they even talk of creating structures for deferal 12:29:48 [Carolyn Caywood] Different here. Everyone knows more than "public servants." 12:29:51 Carri Hulet has joined the session 12:30:49 [silona] call their bluff get them to "do" then the insecurities show 12:30:50 Sharon Ruda has left the session 12:32:02 [betty knighton] Some might welcome access to primary source information. My feeling is that many would find it difficult to find the time to conduct their own personal research. I think they would much rather that the media fulfill its role and do the fact-checking and sifting through misinformation BEFORE they go on the air. 12:32:34 [Bill DiMascio] In the "gated communities" (state prisons) where I held forums, participants just felt so alienated that they rarely vote. Few felt they had choices. 12:32:59 [silona] 19-24 yr olds don't watch listen or read the news - purely run off of peer - very anti-media hence embracing hipster, burning man or their own subculture / "gated community" 12:33:23 [Paul Schumann] On this particular point, isn't it a failure of education. Education to handle complex problems with different or even paradoxial information. 12:33:52 [silona] 24% 12:34:13 [silona] up from 6% I believe a very large jump 12:34:15 [Carolyn Caywood] Strauss and Howe wold say that it is not useful to compare different generations. The teens who are just now hitting adulthood are more receptive to deliberation than were teens in any decade since the 1950s. 12:34:26 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.convergingvoices.com/oband/ 12:35:05 [Bill DiMascio] it seems there is an educational divide that helps to push some groups aside. 12:35:41 sharon has left the session 12:37:40 [Bill DiMascio] Democracy's Challenge seemed to be the most energizing forum we've held. But I almost always say that after doing a new book. Prisoners were very interested in being a part of this challenge and there was a tremendous interest in continuing the dialogue. 12:37:55 [Kai OrangeBand.org] I'm not sure my mic is working - but I have a lot to share! 12:38:02 [Taylor Willingham] yep 12:38:02 [Tom Peters] yes 12:38:09 [Taylor Willingham] Sorry we didn't hear anything Kai 12:39:10 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.leagueoftechvoters.org/drupal/ 12:39:55 [Kai OrangeBand.org] ok i'll try again 12:40:05 [silona] not hearing you 12:40:07 [Tom Peters] no sound, Kai 12:40:11 [Kai OrangeBand.org] oh well! 12:42:38 [silona] heh heh I googled this on Dan http://ctl.sri.com/people/displayPerson.jsp?Nick=dzalles 12:43:00 [Taylor Willingham] http://ctl.sri.com/people/displayPerson.jsp?Nick=dzalles 12:43:00 [silona] hey kai you can always chat to us here more about orange band 12:43:10 [Taylor Willingham] thanks silona...had a typo 12:43:42 [silona] can we get a copy of those slides? i wanna blog about them! 12:43:47 [silona] both on lotv and LJ 12:44:41 [Taylor Willingham] entire presentation will be archived...text, audio, slides 12:45:21 [tomas spath] I am a co-founder of the Institute for Civility in government. www.instituteforcivility.org We feel that part of the reason there is disenfranchizement with politics is due to the negative ads that "politicians feel are needed to win." Those negative ads affect us constituents....so our organization sponsor Congressional Student Forums at universities where dialogues, not debates take place. 12:45:21 [Bill DiMascio] Our participants generally do not come from a life experience where deliberation occurs. And, yet there was a thirst by these folks to be heard. In part that is because they are prisoners and "no one ever asks their opinions on naything." But there was more to it. They are all part of some community and after months or years of confinement they being to feel communal involvement is more important. 12:45:37 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.instituteforcivility.org/ 12:46:25 [Kai OrangeBand.org] taylor, that's a great point. After nearly 9,000 people took OrangeBands to use as invitations to conversations about topics think feel are important to bring into conversation, I think it's clear that one reason people are attracted to it is that we're not telling them what they should talk about and what they should think about it. We're assuming they DO have issues that concern them and we're simply giving them a way to bring that topic into conversation. 12:46:31 [silona] yes teaching people to discuss properly has been a big topic in my community 12:47:09 [Kai OrangeBand.org] We shouldn't confuse people not being involved with the issues WE care about with them being apathetic in general. 12:47:39 [silona] very true 12:47:55 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.thataway.org/ 12:49:49 [Tom Peters] no sound from Paul 12:50:41 [silona] its all about push and pull on the dialogue 12:51:44 [Bill DiMascio] We heard a lot about talk radio but it was all negative -- much as John is saying. 12:51:49 tomas spath has left the session 12:51:55 [silona] my tech experts are very busy people and are willing to spend time blogging if they know that the legisators and staff are actually reading their informed opinions 12:52:01 [Dan Zalles] Thank you 12:52:29 [Tom Peters] hear, hear! 12:52:32 [Carolyn Caywood] :-) 12:52:37 [Kai OrangeBand.org] Talk radio and crossfire-type shows are a huge problem in my mind - and it's not just because they model incivility, etc. The bigger problem is that as they model inauthentic and disingenuous they claim the space of AUTHENTIC dialogue and debate. That, then, redefines the concept of real dialogue and debate in the public's mind. 12:52:44 tomas spath has joined the session 12:52:49 [Paul Schumann] Can't seem to get it to work. 12:53:01 [silona] wow space music 12:53:01 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.centexwfs.org/ 12:53:08 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.centexwfs.org/index_files/page0005.htm 12:53:24 Paul Schumann has left the session 12:54:36 [silona] think global act local --- most having problems on figuring out how to influence global 12:54:41 [Carolyn Caywood] http://www.vbgov.com/city_hall/hot_topics/0,1844,10350,00.html 12:54:54 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.vbgov.com/city_hall/hot_topics/0,1844,10350,00.html 12:54:58 [Kai OrangeBand.org] With this redefinition, people either 1) tune out from opportunities for authentic dialogue because they anticipate it being negative, or 2) they unwittingly sabotage conversations thinking they're participating in an appropriate manner. 12:56:11 [silona] one thing that I have watched is the rebirth of grassroots nonprofits type behavior - it was a big topic at the national npcongress 12:56:15 [Taylor Willingham] This is Carolyn's work 12:56:16 [Bill DiMascio] people may not know how to act globally but they certainly are concerned as we saw in the recent election. 12:56:19 [Tom Peters] yes 12:56:20 [silona] hear ya 12:56:20 [Bill DiMascio] yes 12:56:21 [John Doble] you are 12:56:23 [Dan Zalles] I hear you. 12:56:42 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.civireflection.org/ 12:56:53 [Taylor Willingham] http://civireflection.org/ 12:57:00 [Taylor Willingham] http://civicreflection.org/ 12:57:19 [betty knighton] In West Virginia, we have found that the community response to issues based on whether they are local, national, or international is more a question of ACTION rather than DIALOGUE. People seem willing to talk about national and international issues, but it is much more difficult to ACT on these issues, beyond voting. If the issue is local, such as the halth of WV children, people are much more able to connect the dialogue to acting. 12:58:16 [Tom Peters] People may generally feel that their chances of "making a difference" are better with local issues. 12:58:18 [silona] at some of our local meetings with like to end with an action items list for everyone that wants to take ownership 12:58:36 [silona] yes the charity giving on a local basis is 75% of the total 12:58:51 [Sandy Heierbacher] Betty - if that's the case, do some people tend to just get more frustrated when they talk about national issues? 12:58:58 [silona] that number is from a http://www.longnow.org lecture two weeks ago 12:59:57 [Tim Bonnemann] Very interesting stuff, guys. Thanks for the presentation and your questions/inputs. 13:00:10 [silona] wonderful lecture by the way with larry brillant and richard rockerfeller should be available http://discuss.longnow.org/viewtopic.php?t=235 13:00:27 [Dan Zalles] Yes, this was very interesting. Thank you. 13:00:27 [betty knighton] I do think they seem more frustrated about the large-scale national issues, esp. those related to dealing with terrorism and with international relations. They see those decisions being made at the national level alone. 13:00:40 [Sandy Heierbacher] Silona - I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Study Circles method, but they have a great process for moving from dialogue to deliberation to action (with their Action Forums). Sounds like you use some of their tactics. 13:00:41 Paul Schumann has joined the session 13:00:58 [silona] not familar but I will read up! 13:01:10 [Paul Schumann] I'm back. Lost connection to the Opal server... 13:01:23 [Bill DiMascio] In my experience, forums sometimes lead directly to action, but more often they lead toward changes in thinking. 13:01:29 [silona] hey Taylor do you have any links to winter's talk? 13:01:53 [Sandy Heierbacher] I found in my work with race dialogues that if people aren't given a path to action (if organizers don't assist with the action phase) that participants leave frustrated with the whole process. 13:02:03 [silona] yep 13:02:04 [Taylor Willingham] sec. sil 13:02:12 [Carri Hulet] I have to go, but does anyone know if the transcript for this forum will be available later and how I would get it? 13:02:26 [Taylor Willingham] yep. I'll announce it. 13:02:30 [Tom Peters] yes, it will be archived at www.opal-online.org 13:02:35 [Carri Hulet] thank you. 13:02:38 [Tom Peters] in the archive secton 13:02:44 Carri Hulet has left the session 13:02:58 [Tom Peters] yes! 13:02:59 [Sandy Heierbacher] yep 13:02:59 [silona] hear ya 13:03:00 [Taylor Willingham] yep 13:03:03 [Carolyn Caywood] YES! 13:03:46 [Taylor Willingham] Betty...comments? 13:03:53 [Anne Isenhower] In the discussion of dialogue in the public space was there concern about individuals' speech and corporate speech being a true conversation? Corporations are considered by law as individuals with protected speech, but they do not have the individual's right to vote. They seem to have a large political voice, but it seems to be awkward engagement. 13:04:56 [silona] the most difficult thing I had to deal with lobbying last session for EFF-austin and ACLU was corporations undue influence - thier 168 lobbyists vs our 3 volunteers 13:05:08 [Tom Peters] Paul Woodruff was the author? 13:05:18 [Paul Schumann] yes 13:05:20 [Carolyn Caywood] Did you see the Allen-Webb debate the League of Women Voters sponsored? I came away believing that the issues had been effectively laid out and I think the actual vote reflects that rather than the negative ads. 13:06:28 [silona] special interests are the only ones that have the time and money to invest in the longer haul work of proposing legislation 13:07:11 [silona] the chaos of lobbyists scrambling makes me happy 13:07:28 [Carolyn Caywood] I think the motivators are having a genuine choice and the ability to make a difference. 13:07:43 [silona] yes yes thank you john 13:07:51 [Tom Peters] clap, clap, clap 13:07:54 [Elizabeth Lynn] Yes, thank you! 13:07:59 [Bill DiMascio] Kudos to John and to Taylor. 13:08:27 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.nifi.org/ 13:08:59 [Carolyn Caywood] Where? 13:09:10 [silona] top of new section 13:09:12 [silona] news 13:09:52 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.amazon.com/Measure-Our-Days-Writings-William/dp/1578069149/sr=8-1/qid=1163617390/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1299329-3600753?ie=UTF8&s=books 13:09:56 [Taylor Willingham] about:blank 13:10:39 [Elizabeth Lynn] No, Tuesday? 13:10:43 [Tom Peters] Taylor, will that next program be on Tuesday? 13:10:46 [Carolyn Caywood] We will have a group for next Wednesday. 13:10:51 [Taylor Willingham] http://www.texasforums.org/ 13:11:01 [Carolyn Caywood] Tuesday! 13:11:02 Steven Fearing has left the session 13:11:08 [Anne Isenhower] Thank you for the summation and analysis. I appreciate your efforts and wish you the best in the future. 13:12:45 [Paul Schumann] thanks!!! 13:12:55 [Sandy Heierbacher] This was great, guys. Thank you! I loved the format. 13:12:58 [Kai OrangeBand.org] thanks! 13:13:02 Anne Isenhower has left the session 13:13:02 [John Doble] Taylor, thank you for this invitation. 13:13:11 [betty knighton] Thanks, Taylor and John, and all of you. 13:13:14 [Elizabeth Lynn] Bye, Taylor. Very interesting. 13:13:19 Elizabeth Lynn has left the session 13:13:20 [Taylor Willingham] gotta get mikes for all of you!!! 13:13:22 Kai OrangeBand.org has left the session 13:13:26 [Bill DiMascio] Ciao! 13:13:29 [silona] thanks so much for the invite taylor! 13:13:30 Sandy Heierbacher has left the session 13:13:31 [Taylor Willingham] thx bill 13:13:34 tomas spath has left the session 13:13:42 Bill DiMascio has left the session 13:13:43 [John Doble] And thanks to everyone. Sorry if we did not get to everyone's question or comment, but it's been most interesting 13:13:46 silona has left the session 13:13:52 [Dan Zalles] Thanks again. I'll try to tune in next week too. 13:13:56 [Paul Schumann] Can you publicize our event in December on Extreme Democacy? 13:14:03 [Taylor Willingham] If I see glaring missing questions, we can answer on my blog 13:14:08 betty knighton has left the session