Welcome Tom Peters 16:25:36 [Tom Peters] Hi, Everyone 16:25:40 [Tom Peters] yes 16:25:45 [khewitt] yep, jan 16:25:46 [Taylor] great 16:25:50 [Taylor] Now release the mike 16:25:51 [Paul Schumann] yes 16:25:58 [Mollie] yes, Jan 16:26:04 [jan_c] This is slightly disorienting, sorry. 16:26:31 [jansimon] yes 16:26:44 Landon has joined the session 16:27:07 Landon has left the session 16:27:10 [Tom Peters] Hi, Everyone. 16:27:15 Landon has joined the session 16:27:25 [Tom Peters] www.opa-online.org/archive.htm 16:27:29 [Mollie] Hello, Tom. 16:27:32 Jeni VW has joined the session 16:27:41 [jan_c] I'm sorry, but how do I release the microphone? 16:28:05 [jan_c] Thanks 16:28:13 [Taylor] Hey landon 16:28:15 [Landon] howdy folks 16:28:23 [Taylor] sounds good 16:28:24 [Tom Peters] I hear you 16:28:30 [khewitt] hi jan. 16:28:45 [Tom Peters] yep 16:28:45 John has joined the session 16:28:45 [jansimon] hear you 16:28:49 [khewitt] yep 16:28:50 [Paul Schumann] yes a little loud 16:28:52 jennifer_aninger has joined the session 16:28:55 [Paul Schumann] welcome landon 16:29:01 [Mollie] yup, sounds good 16:29:04 Deana Henry has joined the session 16:29:18 [Tom Peters] Hi, Jan 16:29:24 [jan_c] hi Jan 16:29:26 [Paul Schumann] Good 16:29:29 [jansimon] Hi, everyone. 16:29:30 [Landon] hello back at you jan 16:29:37 [Mollie] hello, jan 16:29:44 Allison has joined the session 16:30:22 [Tom Peters] 456 16:30:24 [Taylor] good 16:30:26 [jan_c] hi Jennifer 16:30:32 [Taylor] great 16:30:38 [Mike Bown] I'm the Mike without a mike. I will try to type conversationally. 16:30:39 [jansimon] Hi, Jeni 16:30:42 [Deana Henry] Hi, I don't have a mic but will be writing if I want to comment Deana 16:30:46 Elizabeth Edwards has joined the session 16:30:47 [jennifer_aninger] hi jeni 16:31:15 [Mollie] Hi, Jennifer and Jeni 16:31:23 [Allison] Hi, I'm Allison and like Mike, I am without a mike. 16:31:39 [jansimon] Tom, are you the Tom Peters who wrote In search of excellence? 16:31:44 [Tom Peters] I wish 16:31:49 [jansimon] That's a good one! 16:33:52 Mike Bown has left the session 16:34:21 [Tom Peters] www.opal-online.org 16:34:22 Mike Bown has joined the session 16:34:53 Julie Anne has joined the session 16:35:40 [Landon] You can also use the pull down menu above the text box to choose your own color to type in. Wonder why I choose orange? Hook em. 16:35:58 [Dan] Haines, Alaska 16:36:00 [jennifer_aninger] jennifer aninger is in chicago, il 16:36:10 [Tom Peters] Blue Springs, Missouri 16:36:10 [Julie Anne] Chicago 16:36:13 [Mollie] Rochester, MN 16:36:17 [Mike Bown] I am in Austin, Texas. 16:36:21 [jansimon] Champaign, Illinois 16:36:23 [khewitt] karen hewitt is in urbana, il 16:36:32 [Landon] Austin Texas 16:36:34 [Allison] Allison, Carbondale Illinois 16:36:34 [Paul Schumann] Austin, TX 16:36:42 [jan_c] I'm in Chicago 16:36:50 [Elizabeth Edwards] champaign IL under 14 inches of snow 16:36:54 [Jeni VW] I'm in Bourbonnais, IL 16:37:50 [Tom Peters] yes 16:37:51 [jansimon] yes 16:37:52 [Julie Anne] yes 16:37:53 [Mike Bown] yes 16:37:53 [jennifer_aninger] yep 16:37:54 [Mollie] yes 16:37:54 [Allison] Yes 16:37:54 [Dan] yes 16:37:55 [Jeni VW] yes 16:37:56 [khewitt] yes 16:38:14 [Tom Peters] yes, the next version has the survey function. 16:38:15 Deana Henry has left the session 16:38:15 [Mike Bown] I have. 16:38:20 [khewitt] I've read a little bit 16:38:21 [jennifer_aninger] past week 16:38:22 [Tom Peters] Just a little...years ago 16:38:23 [Dan] Never before. 16:38:25 [jan_c] 25 years ago. 16:38:29 [Landon] yo 16:38:31 [Jeni VW] Never 16:38:36 [jansimon] I can't understand him, Paul! 16:38:39 [Mollie] never 16:38:41 [Julie Anne] skimmed 16:38:41 [Taylor] Jan, you must have been a child 16:39:32 [Taylor] Jans, you are not alone...very thick! 16:39:46 [jansimon] Thanks, Taylor. 16:40:04 [Taylor] continuous partial attention 16:40:31 [jan_c] His use of "newly minted metaphors" makes him hard to understand. 16:40:38 Deana Henry has joined the session 16:40:42 [jan_c] poetic 16:40:45 [John] John - Plano, TX 16:40:55 [Jeni VW] very rich metaphors, though, once you get through him 16:41:00 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide2.html 16:41:05 [Tom Peters] yes 16:41:05 [jansimon] yes 16:41:06 [Mollie] yes 16:41:14 [Allison] yes 16:41:27 [Dan] Wow, it's like TV. I don't even have to click. 16:41:52 [jennifer_aninger] it's a hot and cool medium! 16:41:53 [Tom Peters] I wonder what McLuhan thought of self-referential media! 16:42:12 Deana has joined the session 16:42:27 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide3.html 16:42:29 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide4.html 16:44:30 [Deana] I slipped out a minute but am back 16:45:57 Mohamed has joined the session 16:46:16 [jan_c] But the books can be read over and over, absorbed over time. 16:46:29 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide5.html 16:47:44 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide6.html 16:47:47 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide7.html 16:48:26 [Mike Bown] I just read the interviews, too! 16:49:04 [Taylor] Mike, we also had a link before class to a video conversation with Mailer 16:49:25 [Tom Peters] hilarious 16:50:22 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide8.html 16:50:41 [Taylor] fifth one down is the link, Mike 16:51:20 [Mike Bown] Thanks...I will check it out. 16:51:36 [Taylor] lol 16:51:41 [Elizabeth Edwards] ha! 16:51:43 [Taylor] well, maybe not out loud! 16:51:43 [jennifer_aninger] (-: 16:51:46 [jan_c] that's good 16:51:49 [Taylor] but snickering 16:52:07 [Landon] maybe not lol, but a medium chuckle 16:52:47 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide9.html 16:52:52 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide10.html 16:53:25 [Taylor] If you have questions, I'll help field them and make sure they don't get lost so type away 16:53:38 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide11.html 16:54:27 [Julie Anne] Channeling the info? 16:54:27 [Tom Peters] I wonder why some media technologies, such as the CB radio, don't have lasting power, while others, such as radio, refuse to die. 16:54:59 [Dan] I love that scene. 16:54:59 [Tom Peters] "You completely misunderstand my work. 16:55:23 [jansimon] Now, Woody Allen, I understand! 16:55:58 [jansimon] like weapons of mass destruction 16:56:37 [jennifer_aninger] isn't that akin to foucault's notion of power as something which is all pervasive yet something of which we are unaware? 16:56:38 [Tom Peters] Do you think the longer we use a medium, the less visible it becomes? 16:57:48 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide12.html 16:58:39 [jan_c] I think that McLuhan thought that you could only see the effect of the medium in hindsight. 16:58:58 [jennifer_aninger] in the rearview mirror... 16:59:06 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide13.html 16:59:11 [Taylor] Just as a designer cannot predict how a technology will be used. 16:59:13 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide14.html 16:59:36 [Julie Anne] socks 16:59:37 [Tom Peters] flippers 16:59:38 [jan_c] the wheel 16:59:38 [Dan] snowboard 16:59:41 [Deana] scooters 16:59:46 [jennifer_aninger] skateboard 16:59:47 [Landon] dance 16:59:52 [Julie Anne] rings 16:59:55 [Deana] computers 16:59:58 [jennifer_aninger] tennis racket 17:00:00 [Landon] aplause 17:00:04 [Deana Henry] tools 17:00:05 [Mollie] boxing gloves 17:00:05 [Mike Bown] PDAs 17:00:21 [jennifer_aninger] specs 17:00:22 [Deana] binoculars 17:00:25 [Mike Bown] telescope 17:00:30 [Julie Anne] everything - whatever we look at 17:00:36 [Tom Peters] hard drives 17:00:40 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide15.html 17:00:52 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide16.html 17:01:13 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide17.html 17:01:15 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide16.html 17:01:43 [Taylor] smellavision? 17:01:47 [Tom Peters] I'm still waiting from scratch-n-sniff websites 17:01:53 [jennifer_aninger] smoke detectors? 17:01:59 [Julie Anne] smell triggers memory 17:02:06 [Taylor] Interesting Jen 17:02:15 [Landon] if I think most TV stinks, does that count? 17:02:20 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide17.html 17:02:27 [jan_c] smell is from an earlier evolutionary version of ourselves. 17:02:30 [Taylor] No accounting for taste, Landon 17:03:10 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide18.html 17:03:18 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide19.html 17:03:39 [Tom Peters] How technologies affect my sense of time fascinates me. 17:03:59 [jansimon] What do you mean, Tom? 17:04:07 [Landon] Say more Tom 17:04:09 [Julie Anne] Perfume packets in magazines - when will smell be available through the computer? 17:04:09 [Taylor] Can you imagine going back to dial up, Tom? 17:05:22 [Taylor] That is related to McLuhan's literacy 17:05:23 [Tom Peters] What do you mean "going back"? :) 17:05:59 [Tom Peters] The notion of media technologies as "mere tools" always has bothered me. 17:06:10 [Taylor] McLuhan says we are moving into post-literate so going back is boing to the literacy stage 17:06:12 [Allison] Interesting just like the saying change is always changing 17:06:17 [Mike Bown] The fish rarely question the water. 17:06:32 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide20.html 17:06:35 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide21.html 17:06:37 [Taylor] technology as tools is what we teach in our schools. 17:07:35 [Taylor] This from Postman, The end of education: "what we need to know about tools is not how to use them, but how they use us. In the case of cars, what we needed to think about was not how to drive, but what they would do to us. 17:08:04 [Tom Peters] To place hammers and inclined planes in the same "tool bin" with rich media environments seems to be stretching the scope of "tools" as a category. 17:08:08 [Mike Bown] Nice! 17:08:59 [jan_c] Extending the human brain is hard to think of as a tool. 17:09:03 [Mike Bown] And yet, if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything gets treated as a nail...eh? 17:09:03 [Taylor] We certainly put the printing press in a different category. Hardly a simple tool 17:09:26 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide22.html 17:09:32 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide23.html 17:09:35 [khewitt] I wonder if you would clarify what you mean by post literate? 17:10:01 [Dan] But was that tool we consider simple really simple when it was created. I imagine the development of the hammer was no less important to man than the development of the printing press. 17:10:15 [Taylor] [none of your questions will be lost] 17:10:41 [jennifer_aninger] or the wheel, dan 17:10:54 [Dan] or the computer 17:11:24 [jan_c] Karen, I think the reference is just to the age beyond the book. 17:11:29 [Tom Peters] Now I'm wondering if the profundity of any radical new technology is fully understood by the early adopters. 17:11:59 [Dan] No, unless you are Mcluhan. ;) 17:12:00 [jan_c] Material is distributed differently now. 17:12:07 [Tom Peters] Early adopters of any technology, such as the horseless carriage, tend to understand the technology in terms of pre-existing technologies. 17:12:49 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide24.html 17:12:56 [jennifer_aninger] when people also thought the world was flat 17:13:07 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide23.html 17:13:18 [Mike Bown] Yes, the hood ornament was originnally a paper-mache horse and much larger to help people and horses adapt to the new technology. 17:13:32 [Taylor] really? 17:13:36 [Mike Bown] yep! 17:13:37 [Julie Anne] A time when disbelief was the norm, acceptance of change - difficult 17:13:40 [Dan] And the trunk was literally a trunk. 17:13:55 [jennifer_aninger] of an elephant or a tree? 17:14:17 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide24.html 17:14:18 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide25.html 17:14:29 [Dan] More like a suitcase. 17:14:31 [Mike Bown] More like a picnic basket, Jennifer. 17:14:46 [Dan] Or what he said. 17:14:55 [Deana] Don't we still live in a time when change is difficult and resisted 17:15:49 [Tom Peters] I wonder how IP notions have affected our notions of creativity and originality over the last few centuries. 17:16:14 [Dan] I wonder how DRM plays into this idea. 17:16:22 [Mike Bown] DRM? 17:16:27 [Deana] You could also argue that putting the Bible together was a process of establishing the church's intellectual property 17:16:38 [Dan] Digital Rights Management - music intellectual property. 17:16:43 [Julie Anne] Change will always be resisted, but back when the idea of the world is round - not flat it wasn't a change project that only took 1-3 strategic plan. 17:16:44 [jansimon] You mean putting the Church in charge? 17:16:51 [Mike Bown] Ah! Thanks Dan. 17:17:31 [Deana] Not necessarily but the process of the church picking and choosing which scripture would be part of the permanent Bible - excluding many texts available at the time 17:18:10 [jansimon] Ah, yes, I agree, Deana. 17:18:14 [Taylor] My literacy students in California told me that learning to read affected their memory. 17:18:28 [Dan] In what way? 17:18:51 [Taylor] They had to memorize everything...could not write things down or read things given to them. 17:19:00 [Taylor] Learned to read, memory went downhill. 17:19:18 [Mike Bown] Primitive tribesmen often report major changes in their perception as they move from the jungle to the cities. 17:19:42 [Julie Anne] Great childrens book titled Escape from Memory discusses the problem. 17:19:55 [Dan] I wonder then how the development of the spoken language impacted human beings. 17:19:56 [jansimon] Thanks, Julie Anne. 17:20:46 [Mike Bown] Message = conscious mostly 17:20:59 [Mike Bown] Medium = unconscious mostly 17:21:08 [Julie Anne] intuitive? 17:21:08 [jan_c] Rereading McLuhan made me think about the evolutinary biology of the brain. 17:21:26 [Dan] I can't imagine how one would think without spoken or concious thought with language. 17:21:41 [Dan] It must be possible, but it's hard to imagine. 17:21:43 [khewitt] I agree with you jan, which is one reason I think mailer was interested in him. 17:21:53 [Landon] C U later. I have to go to a meeting. 17:22:02 [jansimon] bye, Landon. 17:22:04 [Mollie] bye, Landon 17:22:08 [Paul Schumann] http://www.archive.org/stream/psych-out_03/pbs_03-mcluhan_256kb.mp4 17:22:33 [Tom Peters] Did McLuhan have any thoghts about orality and the increasing aurality of media? 17:22:48 [Taylor] are you seeing it? 17:22:54 [Dan] no 17:22:54 [Paul Schumann] can you see and hear the video 17:22:55 [Allison] Yes 17:22:58 [Tom Peters] yes, and hearing it too! 17:22:59 [Elizabeth Edwards] yes 17:23:05 [jansimon] no 17:23:10 [Mollie] no, I'm not seeing it 17:23:17 [Taylor] May just be slow 17:23:19 [Mike Bown] No, says that it required a file I do not have. 17:23:21 [Tom Peters] http://www.archive.org/stream/psych-out_03/pbs_03-mcluhan_256kb.mp4 17:23:25 [jan_c] Karen, I think if McLuhan today, he would be studying neuroscience and evolutioary biology. 17:23:29 [Taylor] try opening in another window 17:23:49 [John] No video; no sound. 17:24:01 [Landon] Have to say b4 I go, I like Paul, but this is too much top down communication, too much old model for learning. Next time we are together, I want more interactive learning and mutual thinking. 17:24:23 khewitt has left the session 17:25:01 John has left the session 17:25:25 [Tom Peters] Landon's comment has me wondering if the more recent media developments are undermining the professorial mode of lecturing. Is the "audience" for media learning to expect more interactivity? 17:25:49 [jansimon] yes, they are, Tom. 17:26:12 [jan_c] Lecture is hot. 17:26:17 [Julie Anne] Yes - especially when the group gathered has been around. 17:26:21 [jennifer_aninger] dan, consider how it affects infants--that might give you a little insight. 17:26:24 [Mollie] I think so, too. 17:26:26 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide25.html 17:26:52 [Tom Peters] Sometimes, however, just sitting in front of the TV and vegging out and letting it wash over me has a certain appeal--perhaps that tags me as a child of the 50's! 17:26:55 [Dan] I like the OPAL technology that lets us all follow out thoughts and discussion if we seek the interactive learning. 17:27:52 [Dan] jennifer good thought. I wonder about the adult mind without language though. I have to think it would be somewhat different, but your example is a good one. 17:28:00 Research Park Library has joined the session 17:28:24 [jennifer_aninger] really, how can one think without language? 17:28:46 [Julie Anne] difficult to put meaning to something not described. 17:28:47 [Dan] right - my question exactly. Is that a possibility? 17:28:59 [Julie Anne] How does a child explain what they are feeling when the do not have the words? 17:29:16 [Allison] Have we ever explored that concept, we've always had words 17:29:17 [jennifer_aninger] well, those who can't speak or hear have thoughts. 17:29:28 [Allison] Good point Jennifer 17:29:36 [jennifer_aninger] helen keller had thoughts 17:29:48 Research Park Library has left the session 17:29:49 [Mollie] yes, Jennifer, I agree 17:29:51 [Dan] right - but how do their thoughts differ from those who can perceive language as most of us know it? 17:30:02 [Julie Anne] Similar to a discussion with someone when both speak but different languages. Facial expressions, movements used to express needs but in depth discussion is not possible. 17:30:04 [Dan] the medium is the massage. 17:30:28 [Dan] Yes but what about the internal thought without language. 17:30:36 Landon has left the session 17:31:01 [Julie Anne] That's like asking someone why they are happy or sad - they can't explain - they just are. 17:31:04 [Allison] Are internal thoughts, thoughts or feelings 17:31:17 [jennifer_aninger] just as i've wondered what the dreams of the blind "look like" 17:31:20 [Mike Bown] yes 17:31:21 [Taylor] So his way of thinking about literacy was the interaction with the printed word. 17:31:23 [jan_c] Einstein did some pretty remakable visual thinking. 17:31:24 [Julie Anne] I just lost sound - anyone else? 17:31:42 [Julie Anne] see - we are listening and typing! 17:31:49 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide26.html 17:31:55 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide27.html 17:32:18 UNT RPL has joined the session 17:32:34 UNT RPL has left the session 17:32:37 [Taylor] How ironic to have this conversation in this environment. 17:32:48 [Taylor] can we get out of the jar and see the label here? 17:32:49 [jansimon] indeed, Taylor. 17:33:29 [Julie Anne] One still has to take the time to smell the flowers 17:33:39 khewitt has joined the session 17:34:00 [Allison] How does this relate to the different styles of learning?? 17:34:03 [Taylor] Tom's question earlier: [Tom Peters] Now I'm wondering if the profundity of any radical new technology is fully understood by the early adopters. 17:34:07 [Deana] I don't know if it is that different I remember reading and tuning the world out entirely and my 7 year old plays his gameboy and doesn't hear or see anything else. 17:34:52 [Tom Peters] Most children have a deep capacity for immersion in a medium. 17:34:56 [Deana] People have gotten tired of palm pilots and I'm certainly tired of a cell phone. walking down the street and talking to my neighbors is very satisfying 17:35:06 [Tom Peters] When they are engrossed by TV, for example, they are "dead to the world" 17:35:14 [Mike Bown] Folks who study NLP often say that the danger, when studying "process" is that we "fall into content". That is, we get attracted by the content or story and forget about the medium. 17:35:14 [Taylor] Deana, I'll not get this right, but McLuhan talks about how we "see" images, like gameboys and tv. 17:35:14 [jansimon] IT's still about relationships, in my view. 17:35:32 [Taylor] The brain has to reconstruct the image ... a new visual process. 17:35:48 [Julie Anne] I grew up being told to put my book down - so what's the difference between being immersed in a book, tv, computer, music, playing, etc. 17:36:04 [Tom Peters] Could these new technologies extend and enhance the human ability to establish relationships, whereas most mass media did not? 17:36:14 [jennifer_aninger] post-presentism 17:36:14 [Taylor] he argues that this "seeing" is akin to processing like the hearing sense. 17:36:43 [jan_c] I think it is important to distinguish old tribal from this new form of tribal. 17:36:47 [Julie Anne] email - returns us to the world of writing which with the advent of the telephone letter writing was reduced. 17:37:03 [Dan] I read about McLuhen's description of TV as decentralized. I wonder how he would view the Internet and it's effect on decentralization. 17:37:55 khewitt has left the session 17:38:12 khewitt has joined the session 17:38:20 [Tom Peters] place-shifting and time-shifting! 17:38:33 [Taylor] and (heaven's forbid) we're talking to each other shamelessly passing notes! 17:38:33 [jan_c] yes Tom 17:38:53 [Julie Anne] but on topic! 17:40:05 [Dan] Great analogy. 17:40:23 [Taylor] pursuit of happiness 17:40:27 [Taylor] not having it 17:40:42 [Deana] Where did the new myth come from? 17:40:45 [Taylor] was going to be pursuit of property 17:41:01 [jennifer_aninger] so property was happiness? 17:41:07 [Deana] was it a typo? 17:41:14 [Dan] The sun orbits each of us. 17:41:38 [Taylor] sort of feels like we're living that - happiness = property! ugh! 17:41:53 [Dan] Or property=happiness. 17:42:11 [jennifer_aninger] let x=x 17:42:31 [Julie Anne] The haves and have nots? Who has? It is probably easier to be happy when one has - 17:42:39 [Mike Bown] Yes, Jennifer, x=x is certainly complicated enough! 17:43:06 [Taylor] Tom, what are you thinking about this question now: [Tom Peters] Do you think the longer we use a medium, the less visible it becomes? 17:43:31 [jansimon] Because of the media, the have-nots are more aware of what the haves have. 17:44:11 [Deana] Actually the media is so skewed I'm not sure it represents anyone's reality 17:44:11 [Julie Anne] What about time? Is there enough time to use all the items someone who is a haves has? 17:44:16 [Taylor] So if you want control, control the media 17:44:32 [Mike Bown] Yes...except when our urge for property expresses itself as a need for the next largest sized digital TV. 17:44:44 [Taylor] That has spawned citizen media, Deana 17:44:56 [Taylor] The technology changes who has access and voice 17:45:00 [Julie Anne] Can time be a medium? 17:45:14 [Taylor] mmm 17:45:32 [Deana] certainly having the economics to have time influences the possiblity to use medium and not just work 17:45:35 [jansimon] Citizen Media is exciting. 17:45:43 [Mike Bown] Yep...time is the medium for the other 3 dimensions. 17:46:25 [Deana] still trying to control 17:47:49 [Taylor] So maybe applying these tetrads is one way of thinking about an answer to Tom's earlier question: [Tom Peters] I wonder why some media technologies, such as the CB radio, don't have lasting power, while others, such as radio, refuse to die. 17:48:34 MaX has joined the session 17:48:43 [Taylor] Some technologies that died were rendered obsolete? 17:48:51 MaX has left the session 17:49:58 [Julie Anne] the other video from the 80's? 17:50:08 [Taylor] ?? 17:50:19 [Mike Bown] Don't you think that CB radio was rendered obsolete by cell phones--because cells offered more distance and clarity all at once? 17:50:38 [jan_c] Beta, Julie Anne? 17:50:59 [Deana] those ham radio operators were life lines in the Katrina disaster I thought they were obsolete prior to that 17:51:12 [Taylor] I'm glad to have one for a neighbor! 17:51:14 [Julie Anne] yes - thank you I was thinking beta then thought that couldn't be right because beta now refers to when something is in the test form 17:51:28 [Julie Anne] truck drivers still use cb 17:51:50 [jennifer_aninger] i still have a lot of beta tapes and am looking for a beta vcr! 17:51:52 [Dan] Many fisherman still use VHF radio too. 17:51:53 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide28.html 17:52:08 [Taylor] I just got a stylus for my phonograph so I can listen to my LPs! 17:52:14 [Julie Anne] check ebay 17:52:21 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide29.html 17:52:26 [Deana] our 26 year old son uses a fountain pen 17:52:33 [Julie Anne] stylus - new needle? 17:52:37 [Taylor] E-bay, Jen! New technology will put you in touch with old technology! 17:52:47 [Taylor] yep, found it... 17:52:50 [Taylor] online, of course! 17:53:05 [jennifer_aninger] me too, taylor! will check ebay. 17:53:21 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide30.html 17:53:26 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide31.html 17:53:33 [Julie Anne] they look like pixels 17:53:36 [jan_c] The pattern looks Asian. 17:53:57 [Taylor] Advertising has become viral 17:53:58 [Julie Anne] That a slide of worms 17:54:08 [Dan] How about political campaigns? 17:54:19 [Taylor] I admit it, I click on the apple ads when I open safari 17:54:37 [Mike Bown] Must leave now. Thanks for the ideas...a deep bow to Paul... 17:54:43 [Taylor] We talk about ads. Hey, did you see that funny ad... 17:54:47 [Taylor] Thanks Mike! 17:55:03 [Taylor] Listen to the end 17:55:13 Mike Bown has left the session 17:55:15 [Taylor] Mike, we may do more of this 17:55:16 [Julie Anne] Which one - the I'm a pc, I'm a Mac? 17:55:22 [jennifer_aninger] best superbowl ads, e.g. 17:55:22 [Taylor] http://www.texasforums.org 17:55:37 [Taylor] yep, "speaking of peripherals" 17:55:45 [Tom Peters] City-states evolved into nation-states. Will nation-states evolve into...? 17:55:49 [Julie Anne] Back to taste - this years superboal ads - did not work for me. 17:56:02 [jan_c] Companies are soon to be driven by consumers, which sort of obsolesces advertising 17:56:30 Ashley has joined the session 17:56:37 [Dan] What about how the Internet is changing political campaigns? 17:56:37 [Taylor] Tom, could it be that nations become less relevant given globalism and global corporations? 17:56:40 Ray Desjardins has joined the session 17:56:45 Ray Desjardins has left the session 17:56:49 Ray Desjardins has joined the session 17:56:57 [Tom Peters] Taylor, yet, I think that may be the case. 17:57:00 [khewitt] tom -- it almost seems nation-states will devolve into fundamentalist, ethnically-cleansed micro-communities 17:57:08 [Taylor] Dan, and people are voluntarily making videos to promote candidates. posting on web site...see john edwards site 17:57:26 [jennifer_aninger] they're headed that way, karen 17:57:38 [Tom Peters] khewitt, yes, the effects of online communities could be profound, and frightening. 17:58:15 Ray Desjardins has left the session 17:58:17 [Taylor] See extreme democracy: The Second Superpower 17:58:23 [Tom Peters] virtual gated communities may make real-life gated communities look quaint. 17:58:33 Ray Desjardins has joined the session 17:58:45 [Julie Anne] Sterile 17:58:47 [jan_c] Karen, the new tribes could be communities of interest 17:58:59 [Tom Peters] Ray, if you're here for the Linda Hall Library event, it will begin in approx. 30 mins. 17:59:09 [jan_c] More high-minded, I mean 17:59:10 [Taylor] See citation in TexasTaylor Library thing 17:59:10 [khewitt] the freedom of online communication is paradoxically quite restrictive and often hostile 17:59:11 [Dan] Everything seems to be ecologically homogenizing - from government to farming. 17:59:16 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide32.html 17:59:22 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide33.html 17:59:43 [Taylor] http://www.librarything.com/catalog/TexasTaylor 17:59:55 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide34.html 17:59:57 [Dan] Time to learn to swim. 18:00:01 [khewitt] the potential to form geographically dispersed communities is a positive 18:00:12 [jansimon] Dan, are you suggesting, we naturally homongenize? 18:00:27 [jansimon] I really messed up that spelling 18:00:32 [Dan] Not really, just a personal observation of late. 18:01:49 Hilary has joined the session 18:02:01 [Paul Schumann] http://attendr.com/ 18:02:13 [Paul Schumann] http://attendr.com/ 18:02:16 [Tom Peters] Hilary, the Linda Hall Library lecture will begin in approx. 30 mins. 18:02:20 Hilary has left the session 18:02:44 [Paul Schumann] http://attendr.com/onlineconnectivismconference 18:02:56 [Paul Schumann] http://attendr.com/onlineconnectivismconference/attendees 18:03:12 [jennifer_aninger] attendr seems to be a bit of a folksonomy 18:03:31 [Taylor] Next lecture at 6:30: Climate Impacts of Land Use 18:03:38 [Taylor] looks interesting 18:03:38 Jane has joined the session 18:03:49 [Paul Schumann] http://attendr.com/ 18:03:51 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide34.html 18:03:55 [Paul Schumann] http://www.glocalvantage.com/Mcluhan_files/800x600/slide35.html 18:04:10 Dr. Jimmy Adegoke has joined the session 18:04:53 [jansimon] too quiet. 18:06:57 [Julie Anne] Dialogue based versus force fed 18:07:45 [Dan] How do you view the future of our representative democracy in an Internet age that focuses on immediacy? 18:07:51 [Ray Desjardins] Thanks Tom Ray 18:08:30 [jansimon] You did a great job, Paul. Thank you. 18:08:34 [Taylor] UNDERSTAND THAT! 18:08:38 [Taylor] Whew! 18:08:50 [Dr. Jimmy Adegoke] I can see a couple of folks that I know already in the auditorium. Hi Ray; Hi Mollie; Hi Ashley 18:11:05 [Allison] This makes me wonder about styles of learning and the impact it could have with that work 18:13:39 [Taylor] Crews discussion projects moving to the fourth cause - What is it's purpose 18:13:41 [Taylor] ah 18:14:47 [Ray Desjardins] Hi Jimmy 18:14:55 [Taylor] Interesting we're being followed by climate discussion! Did we ask the right questions about the automobile when it was invented? 18:15:19 [Taylor] As tom said: [Tom Peters] Early adopters of any technology, such as the horseless carriage, tend to understand the technology in terms of pre-existing technologies. 18:15:30 [Taylor] So we don't always have the right questions! 18:15:53 Dr. Jimmy Adegoke has left the session 18:15:57 [Tom Peters] It often takes us awhile to really understand the power of a new technology. 18:16:01 Dr Jimmy Adegoke has joined the session 18:16:05 [Taylor] Other questions??? 18:16:09 [Julie Anne] Thinking about the future impact or use of a tool is secondary to thinking about the tool serving the purpose for which it is designed 18:16:44 [Julie Anne] exactly - bombs, pollution 18:17:18 [Julie Anne] message - cataclysmic? 18:17:24 [Dan] The Internet is having a huge impact on political campaigns. How do you view the future of our representative democracy in an Internet age that focuses on immediacy? 18:17:46 [Tom Peters] I don't know...what about Slim Pickens yell of glee as he rode his atomic bomb? 18:17:47 Godstime James has joined the session 18:17:48 [Taylor] http://67.19.231.218/v4/login.asp?r=1b261dc2&p=0 18:18:15 Dan has left the session 18:18:26 Dan has joined the session 18:18:27 [jan_c] Thanks, Paul. It was very thought provoking. 18:18:31 [Julie Anne] Isaac Asimov 18:18:37 [Allison] Thank You, Paul! 18:18:38 [Tom Peters] Thanks, Paul, very much 18:18:44 [khewitt] thank you. 18:18:45 [Deana] Thanks Paul and Thanks Taylor for inviting me 18:18:49 [jennifer_aninger] keep up the good work, paul! 18:18:54 [jansimon] My mind is full, Paul. Excellent ideas. 18:18:59 [Godstime James] Thanks 18:19:00 [Mollie] Thank you so much, Paul. Very insightful and interesting! 18:19:08 [Tom Peters] Climate change follows close on the heels of Marshall McLuhan...now there's a message! 18:19:11 [Dan] Thanks Paul. 18:19:13 steve krabbe has joined the session 18:19:15 Irma has joined the session 18:19:21 [Paul Schumann] you're welcome 18:19:21 [jansimon] Thanks, Taylor, for arranging this. 18:19:30 Erica Reynolds has joined the session 18:19:32 [Julie Anne] This is alot to think about, I know I will continue to process this. Thank you for your time, information, etc. this evening Paul. 18:19:34 [jennifer_aninger] and thank you, taylor! 18:19:45 [Mollie] thanks, Taylor! 18:19:55 Deana has left the session 18:20:01 jan_c has left the session 18:20:02 jansimon has left the session 18:20:03 Allison has left the session 18:20:06 [Julie Anne] As much as I would like to head to the Texas forum to continue this - I have to head back into a meeting at work. Thank you 18:20:09 Paul Schumann has left the session 18:20:11 khewitt has left the session 18:20:14 Dan has left the session 18:20:18 Mohamed has left the session 18:20:21 khewitt has joined the session 18:20:27 khewitt has left the session 18:20:27 Julie Anne has left the session